Philippe: What is a lawyer and what are the different types of lawyer?
Atty Ferrer: A lawyer is a professional who has passed the bar exams in the Philippines which is administered by the Supreme Court. And first classification of a lawyer is either in private or public practice.
A private lawyer usually has a law firm or in a private company. On the other hand there is a government lawyer who engages in public practices of law, such as our politician, those in the judiciary, the legislator.
Atty Ferrer: I’m Attorney John Peter Ferrer. I’m a litigation lawyer and an accountant.
Philippe: Can you share a bit of insights on what of your most challenging cases and what it was?
Atty Ferrer: Our most challenging cases is the one against Ayala Land Corporation and it involves almost 40 hectares in Las Pinas.And we are only a small law firm and we are against a very big law firm
Philippe: Bottom line, what happen to the case, did you guys win?
Atty Ferrer: In the regional trial court we won, then court of appeals, we lost but in the supreme court we won again. Actually it’s the first time Ayala land loss in a big land case
Philippe: Do you think para syang David and Goliath noh?
Atty Ferrer: Yes
Philippe: We have billions and maybe trillions of pesos going into pockets of politicians.What are your thoughts about what’s going on? Do you think may makukulong?
My first question would be, what is a lawyer? And what are the different types of lawyers that exist?
Atty Ferrer: A lawyer is a professional who has passed the bar exams in the Philippines, which are administered by the Supreme Court. The first classification of a lawyer is either in private or public practice.
A private lawyer usually works in a law firm or in a private company. Like me, I have a law firm together with my father and a former city prosecutor of San Juan, Atty. Tomas Recalde.
Atty Ferrer: My father has been practicing law for the past 51 years, and he really loves litigation, so he has no plans of retiring despite the fact that he is already 76 years old.
On the other hand, there is a government lawyer who engages in public practice of law, such as our politicians, those in the judiciary, and the legislators.
Philippe: And then they tend to become, when they level up in the government, sila yung nagiging presidente o mga gano’n.
Atty Ferrer: At may mga justices, Supreme Court justice, or judges, prosecutors.
Philippe: So two main parts pala of lawyers, no? Like you said,
Atty Ferrer: Private and public.
Philippe: Public, okay.
Atty Ferrer: Based on location, there is also an international lawyer and a local lawyer. If you want to practice here in the Philippines, they are called local lawyers.
There is also an international lawyer who practices abroad. But of course, their practice should be limited unless they are educated in the laws of other countries.
Philippe: So ito yung mga, these international lawyers are the ones that, let’s say, if it’s a country-to-country case, tama ba?
Atty Ferrer: Or those involved with diplomatic work, foreign governments, or foreign lawyers such as those who pass the New York Bar or the California Bar, or those who work with the International Criminal Court.
These are considered international lawyers. For example, my wife is specializing in international law, but of course she wants to be with me, so she does not want to work abroad.
Philippe: When you’re an international lawyer, that caught my attention. When you’re an international lawyer, do you have to be knowledgeable about all the laws in the world? Or is it specific, like certain countries or continents?
Philippe: How does that work?
Atty Ferrer: Not necessarily, Philippe. It depends on where you want to practice abroad. If you want to practice in a New York based law firm, you only have to pass the bar exams in New York and learn the laws of the United States.
But if you want to practice in international courts or diplomatic missions, you have to know the laws of other countries as well as the basic principles and details of international law, including treaties and international agreements.
Philippe: More on diplomacy, right? Interesting. That’s quite interesting. You followed your dad’s footsteps, right?
Atty Ferrer: Yes. Also my mother. Actually, my mother is also a lawyer, and even my wife—her parents are both lawyers.
Philippe: Family of lawyers.
Atty Ferrer: But among the four siblings, I’m only the one who took up law.
Philippe: Really?
Atty Ferrer: Yeah. unlike my wife. She has four siblings, and all of them took up law, and there are already four lawyers among them.
Philippe: Wow I love that. So sometimes we have a family of doctors, and now we have a family of lawyers. That’s really nice to hear. And it seems, when it comes to your children, do you think they’re going to take up law as well?
Atty Ferrer: Most probably my son. My son loves to argue, so he might take up law. But my daughter still has no interest in law.
Philippe: She’ll probably follow your footsteps.
Atty Ferrer: Whatever she loves to do.
Philippe: That’s nice. So you’ve been, correct me if I’m wrong, a litigation lawyer for the past…
Atty Ferrer: Since 2006. So 20 years.
Philippe: 20 years. And as a litigation lawyer, what is the fundamental description of a litigation lawyer? Can you give us a few examples?
Atty Ferrer: A litigation lawyer usually appears in court as a litigator, representing either the plaintiff or the defendant in civil cases, or acting as a private prosecutor or the lawyer for the accused in criminal cases.
Aside from criminal cases, litigation lawyers also practice in labor cases for the labor department, or as tax lawyers.
Philippe: Can you share a bit of insights on one of your most challenging cases and what it was?
Atty Ferrer: Our most challenging cases is the one against Ayala Land Corporation and it involves almost 40 hectares in Las Pinas.
Philippe: Wow
Atty Ferrer: And we are only a small law firm and we are against a very big law firm whose one of the parties is a former Supreme Court Justice and of course, Ayala Land is a very big company.
Philippe: So, tell us more about this case. What was so interesting and, like you said, the challenge was a small firm versus a big law firm that is siding with a big corporation. What was interesting about this?
Atty Ferrer: What’s interesting about this case is, of course, it involves 40 hectares of prime land almost beside Ayala Alabang. At the time we handled the case, it was actually a golf course, and there were many overlapping titles on that property.
Our client had an earlier title which was affirmed by the courts, and Ayala Land also had another title, which we were able to prove was actually void. The titles of Ayala Land are actually void.
Philippe: So, it wasn’t falsification of documents?
Atty Ferrer: No.Irregularities in the issuance of the titles in favor of Ayala Land.
Philippe: Bottom line, what happened to the case? Did you guys win?
Atty Ferrer: In the Regional Trial Court, we won. Then in the Court of Appeals, we lost. But in the Supreme Court, we won again.
Philippe: Wow.
Atty Ferrer: That’s why it’s actually a very challenging case and actually, it’s already considered a landmark decision because it has a new ruling or findings of PACO related to land titles.
Philippe: That’s great. That’s great to know. Congratulations. How long ago was this?
Atty Ferrer: The Supreme Court decision attained finality five years ago but the case was pending for almost two decades.
Philippe: Oh my God.
Atty Ferrer: We did not originally handle it but we handled it when it was already in the Supreme Court.
Philippe: Okay, okay. But if you think about it, it’s like David and Goliath, right?
Atty Ferrer: Yes.
Philippe: That’s a nice, that’s a really, that’s why it’s very interesting. Tapos nanalo pa kayo.
Atty Ferrer: Actually, it’s the first time Ayala Land lost in a big land case.
Philippe: Well, I’m not against Ayala Land but you guys must have been very proud because…
Atty Ferrer: Actually, there was only a little negligence on their part on due diligence of titles but they did not commit any fraudulent act or any act of falsification documents.
Philippe: So, what did they do? Did they go after the one, in terms of the land titles, right? Did they go to the original owner and did they sue them or did they file a case against them?
Atty Ferrer: I’m not privy to what they did to the seller of the properties.
Philippe: Oh, quite interesting. Thank you for sharing that.And what does it take to be a lawyer like yourself?
Atty Ferrer: It takes a lot of effort to be a lawyer like me and especially because I became an accountant after I became a lawyer.
Philippe: Okay
Atty Ferrer: First, you have to take a 4-year course. I took up Business Economics at UP Diliman. Then afterwards, I immediately took up law for 4 years, then reviewed for the bar for 6 months and waited for the results of the bar exams for another 6 months.
Especially during law proper for 4 years, you really have to study very, very well. I remember that almost every day, I had to study for at least 6 hours. At that time, I started law.
Atty Ferrer: I tried to work for a bank, but after 2 weeks, I decided to study full-time because it’s really very difficult to work and study at the same time.
Philippe: So, it takes a total of 4 years, another 4 years, you take the bar exam, let’s say a year for the results and taking it…
Atty Ferrer: 9 years.
Philippe: 9 years total.
Atty Ferrer: From college.
Philippe: From college. Wow. And then after that, when did you start your law firm?
Atty Ferrer: Actually, my father started it in 1990. Then I continued it together with him in 2006 when I passed up.
Philippe: Wow. Let’s rewind back to that case with Ayala Land. Of course, your father was involved as well? Yeah. During that time? He was part of the team and all? Wow. It’s quite an interesting father-son dynamic. But how many of you? Just the two of you?
Atty Ferrer: 3 or 4.
Philippe: 3 or 4.
Atty Ferrer: Before, my wife also was part of the law firm but now she works in local water utilities administration and she also teaches in 3 law schools.
Philippe: That’s nice.
Atty Ferrer: Ateneo, Arellano, and PUP.
Philippe: Wow! She’s full-time. Full-time. And she enjoys it because… Wow. And for sure, your top topic teaching her students is about that case with Ayala Land, right?
Atty Ferrer: Actually, my wife specializes on human rights, international humanitarian law.
Philippe: That’s another level ata
Atty Ferrer: She does not like litigation. At least, because of that, we rarely encounter conflicts.
Philippe: At least. Well, it’s true. I believe it’s very stressful because everyone thinks when they watch… like… I think recently I watched a TV show called Lincoln Lawyer. Watching it, it’s already stressful—how much more for real lawyers like you guys.
Atty Ferrer: You really have to manage your stress. It won’t take it all in your head.
Philippe: So, the first… actually, it looks like the first and last law firm you worked with is your law firm with your father. And what made you jump… you told me earlier you wanted to jump into corporate law? Or are we talking about… is it the same as corporate tax?
Atty Ferrer: Corporate and tax law.
Philippe: Corporate and tax law. Okay, interesting. That’s quite good because with the issues that are coming out, especially with taxes and not only with taxes but with our government itself it’s a bit of a shaky ground. But I believe, what made you want to leave the life of a litigation lawyer for corporate and tax law?
Atty Ferrer: Because the life of a litigator is really stressful. But I can still manage it. I also love corporate and tax law because I’m an accountant, and I love numbers.
Philippe: You’re very analytical about it, no?
Atty Ferrer: Yeah, analytical.
Philippe: But I believe in your dad. Until now, he’s a fighter. Very proud. Okay, when it comes to taxes and all the numbers, I know there’s a big… there’s a big question about where our taxes go. And then there are a lot of government agencies.
Well, apparently we’re moving now to the topic that involves the government. But when it comes to tax law, with corporations and companies,
Philippe: do you think there’s significant corruption within these private companies or large corporations when it comes to tax evasion? What are your thoughts about it?
Atty Ferrer: I believe that even private companies are also involved in corruption because corruption in the government will not survive if the private companies do not tolerate it.
Philippe: And so, would you say it’s a fair assumption that there’s a lot of corruption with corporations and private companies due to the government’s corruption? Is it safe to assume that?
Atty Ferrer: I think it’s safer to assume that both parties are actually part of the corruption. So, we cannot only blame the government, but also ourselves even in my private practice, corruption is prevalent. But actually, it’s a lot less now in courts because there are many honest judges.
Philippe: What do you think about… because when it comes to, for example, the BIR, we know that all these large corporations or any corporation that you start have to pay about 30% corporate tax year by year. And a lot of them avoid those payments, or whatever that 30% is, they really reduce it.
Atty Ferrer: Through deductions.
Philippe: Lots of deductions. Lots of deductions. And sometimes I feel like… Because right now, with what’s going on with the government, maybe they do it in a such because they don’t see where our taxes go.
And we don’t see the improvements. Although there are improvements, as you can see with our infrastructure, but it’s very slow. Right now, since we know that other government officials are being bullied, sometimes it’s annoying.
Philippe: Why shouldn’t we file for… Why should we pay our taxes when we see our government not putting good use of that money? That’s why the abolishment of VAT, they’re proposing it, as I’m sure that you’re very aware of, not knowing that there’s a big effect.
It’s going to be impactful negatively on our country, on our citizens, on our infrastructure. But the issue at hand when all this corruption came out, that we have billions and maybe trillions of pesos going into pockets of politicians, I saw…
Philippe: It’s a good thing it came out to light. Because apparently, we have a lot of money.
Atty Ferrer: Yes, yes.
Philippe: Right? And imagine…
Atty Ferrer: We have a trillion-peso budget.
Philippe: Wow. And imagine if that trillion-peso budget was put into good use.Yes. Maybe we would be getting to… Becoming a first world country.
Atty Ferrer: Yes, yes.
Philippe: Right? You’re right. There’s corruption within the corporation and the government. When are you officially becoming a corporate tax lawyer?
Atty Ferrer: Maybe when my father retires, fully retires.
Philippe: It will still be the same firm?
Atty Ferrer: Yes, it’s possible. And then I’ll hire a tax specialist. Actually, I also have knowledge, a lot of knowledge on tax law. Actually, it’s one of the highest… I obtained my highest bar exam rating in tax 93%. I’m 93% in…
Philippe: Wow. You’re really good with numbers. You’re really good with numbers.
Atty Ferrer: Business economics, which has a lot of math, and accountancy.
Philippe: Wow, wow. It’s really for you because I see that you’re happy about it.
Atty Ferrer: And we know that tax is considered the lifeblood of the government. It is. It’s important to reduce it because corruption is really part of the system, even in other governments.
But it should be tempered. It should. Like in… for example, in Hong Kong, China, their government officials only get 5%, 10%. But here in the Philippines, the average is… 95%.
Atty Ferrer: Almost 50% only for the government officials and the contractors. So only 50% goes to actual projects and little expenses.
Philippe: And that’s what they just recently… I mean, that’s what they formally announced. Maybe there’s more.
Atty Ferrer: It’s still possible.
Philippe: It’s quite interesting where the situation from last year went.
Atty Ferrer: Yeah, I hope our voters will learn and our government officials will also learn from what happened. But of course, not the negative way of learning.
For example, learning how to hide money and how to avoid criminal liability, such as avoiding signing the bidding documents and avoiding checks in favor of our government officials.
Atty Ferrer: Actually, a lot of government officials have votes because if they receive kickbacks in cash, it’s really hard to trace.
Philippe: It is hard. I think we need to trace the suitcase.
Atty Ferrer: Yes. Like now, our politicians were able to avoid the cases just a few. And usually, the contractors and DPWH officials are the ones who are prosecuted because it’s hard to trace based on documents involving our congressmen or even higher officials.
What are your thoughts about what’s going on? Do you think someone will be jailed? Someone will be jailed, especially the contractors, DPWH officials, and a few government officials who are elected by congressmen.
Atty Ferrer: But just a few, because there are still a lot of people protecting them. It’s hard to get evidence against them. They learned a lot of things, right? A lot of people were acquitted midtime public officials.
Others are still being prosecuted, right? They were acquitted. It’s okay. Even if they were jailed, they were acquitted. But they are still being prosecuted. I think it boils down to the voters.
Philippe: Yes. We don’t learn.
Atty Ferrer: Yes.
Philippe: At pag may nakulong dyan at eleksyon na at sumayaw ulit, iboboto ulit
Atty Ferrer: Based on last elections, at least I can see some improvement.
Philippe: That’s right. Some were not. Some were defeated. Yes.
Atty Ferrer: Many were defeated because of corruption involved. But still, just like what we’re doing now, I hope that social media has a lot of educated voters, wise voters.
Philippe: I hope so. Because last election, even the celebrity status, they were not defeated.
Atty Ferrer: Ang daming hindi nanalo.
Philippe: We’re very thankful about that.
Atty Ferrer: We really have to be a mature democracy.
Philippe: We should. I think it’s about time now.
Atty Ferrer: Yes.
Philippe: Right? And it’s 2026 now. Everything is on social media. We see everything. It’s so hard to hide, unlike back in the 2000s.
Back in the 2000s, there were cameras everywhere. Anywhere? Did you have a camera when you were young?
Atty Ferrer: Yes.
Philippe: Let’s rewind back to… let’s educate some of our listeners on people who are aspiring to become lawyers. Like you said, it takes at least nine years just to get into private practice.
And what happens to those, for example, after spending nine years and passing the bar? Do the ones that don’t have the chance of getting into a firm, what do they usually do?
Philippe: Do they need to find a firm of their choosing, or do firms go up to them and scout them? How does this thing work?
Atty Ferrer: One of the reasons why I agreed to take up law is because being a lawyer is really a noble profession, and you can go into a lot of jobs, work anywhere, even internationally.
Aside from law firms, you can be a lawyer in a company. Or you can also teach, like my wife, and even if you establish your own business, you can also practice law.
Atty Ferrer: For example, in establishing a company, you’ll need legal knowledge, and in running a company, if you employ workers or staff members, you can also use your legal knowledge.
And actually, according to the Supreme Court, any work of a lawyer which involves the application of law is considered a practice of law. So it’s not just practicing in a law firm or doing notary public. A lawyer can practice anywhere.
Philippe: Ah malawak pala
Atty Ferrer: And there’s always a premium. Even with the police, if you go to PNP or AFP, you can also be… actually, if you’re considered a captain, your salary will increase. Even with the government, there’s always a premium when it comes to being a lawyer.
And of course, in our society, lawyers are respected. That’s why, when the bar exams come out, they’re really followed. I envy a lot of other professions.
Atty Ferrer: Why do they publish the top-notchers? Because, you know, in our country, law is really important. And it can establish order. But of course, we really need to not push the law.
Philippe: In these bar exams, what are the percentages of passers and non-passers? Is it 80-20? What do you think the percentage is?
Atty Ferrer: At the time I passed the bar exam in 2006, the percentage was 20–25%. But recently, during the last bar exams, around 51% passed.
Before, lawyers who took their oath could fit in PICC, but last year, the venue was SMOA, and this year, they cannot even fit in SMOA.
Atty Ferrer: They have to take their oath in the Philippine Arena. There are a lot of lawyers.
Philippe: A lot, a lot of lawyers. That’s quite interesting. And what happens to the non-passers? Do they repeat it?
Atty Ferrer: Yeah, they can repeat it. But after two failures, they have to take a refresher, like a review course, before they can take the bar again.
Philippe: And what if, for example, let’s say for certain people who really can’t do it, what do they do next? I mean, after nine years, oh sorry, eight years.
Atty Ferrer: They can work in other companies, and at least, having graduated from law, it’s a premium to have a Bachelor of Laws because they studied for at least eight years.
I’ve met a lot of people who didn’t pass, but it’s still okay because they have an advantage over college graduates, because they know law.
Philippe: I’m surprised na malawak pala ang opportunity
Atty Ferrer: Marami tska hindi talaga sya boring, kasi marami kang pwedeng gawin, wala akong narinig na lawyers na unemployed, kasi marami kang pwedeng gawin. Among all the profession and college degrees,
lawyers have the most flexibility and opportunities in any workplace or kahit nga sa abroad diba. Sa sarili mo pwede rin. Pwede mo magamit.
Philippe: This is the first time I hear about the premiums because people think, oh, if I become a lawyer, law firm, doon ako mag-works, isang law firm, or either maging freelance lawyer or private or public like you said, and then public nga, nagiging politician pa.
Atty Ferrer: Kahit mga politician, may premium din kung abogado ka. Sa Legislation, sa Legislative Department, kailangan din talaga natin ng mga lawyers sa Congress.
Nakalungkot lang na sa Senate, kumukonti yung mga lawyers doon. Ang mga nananalo ay yung mga popular, yung mayayaman.
Philippe: Mayayaman, celebrity status, socialites.
Atty Ferrer: Katulad dati, magagaling yung mga senators. Yung mga magagaling pa rin naman, pero kumukonti.
Philippe: I think, ang nabimiss ko, I sometimes find videos of her, mga reels, si Miriam Defensor.
Atty Ferrer: Yan, Miriam Defensor.
Philippe: Oh my God! The best! Lawyer in congress talaga and then lawyer when in comes to mga senate hearings, grabe abogadong abogado talaga
Atty Ferrer: Kasi kahit sa international arena. Actually, na-appoint nga siya sa International Court of Justice. Parang yun yung Supreme Court ng buong mundo.
Philippe: Sayang
Atty Ferrer: Kaya nga lang nagkasakit siya, kaya hindi siya natuloy.
Philippe: I miss politicians like that who were…
Atty Ferrer: I also love her sense of humor.
Philippe: kakaiba din eh diba?
Atty Ferrer: Yung high level na sense of humor ni Miriam.
Philippe: Intellectual jokes, pero very strong and very forward. So, marami pa lang, there’s a lot of chances even if you don’t pass the board, you could have opportunities in a lot of sectors, a lot of industries as well. I wasn’t aware of that actually.
Atty Ferrer: Actually, any company, most companies need a lawyer.
Philippe: Doesn’t all companies, not most, kasi doon pa lang sa SE, by-loss pa lang.Parang pag binasa mo, kailangan ata abogado
Atty Ferrer: Hindi yan corporation. Kahit Solproc, you have to register it with the Department of Trade and Industry. Tapos, you have to pay taxes, kahit kayong mga online businesses. You have to pay taxes and register with the local government unit for your business permit.
Philippe: Andami pala. There’s a lot of avenues that you could… so, becoming a lawyer, not only that. People what people watch on TV shows, movies ah, lawyer, nasa court ka, nasa… yun pala, sobrang lawak.
Atty Ferrer: Yung court lawyers, it only comprises around 5% of what a lawyer can do.
Philippe: Ang liit lang pala.
Atty Ferrer: Yun lang yung classic na lawyering. Pero marami kang pwedeng gawin kung abogado ka.
Philippe: Enlighten me. When it comes to, let’s say, litigation, which has the most, which has the highest earning income as a lawyer? Litigation, corporate tax what do you think in your…
Kasi, example lang, sa mga doktor, siyempre yung mga surgeons, sila yung top tier, di ba? Lalo kung brain surgeon ka. Grabe yung bayad sayo.
Philippe: So, when it comes to lawyers naman, who has that status na parang surgeon?
Atty Ferrer: Sa lawyers, ang may status na parang surgeon, yung mga corporate lawyers. Yung mga malalaking kumpanya. Nibaba, lawyer ng BBO. Lalo na yung sa merging ng mga companies.
Merger ng PLDT and SMART. Pwedeng kumita ang abogado dyan ng mga more than 10 million. Pero sa litigation, ano din.
Atty Ferrer: Pwede rin yung mga, anibaba, sa mga land cases na involving mga billion peso properties. Kasi, anibaba, i-compute mo na lang 5% nun, yung kitain ng lawyer, malaki pa din yun.
Philippe: Wow, wow. And is it true, for example, a sale of a property or of a car, ilan percent yung sininaw ko kapag, let’s say, nanotaryo, tama ba? What’s the standard percentage of their income on that? Is it still 5% as well?
Atty Ferrer: For notarization, maliit lang naman. Kadalasan, mga 0.1% lang. Of the total? Talaga sa mga deed of sale. Pero kung aside from notarization, you’ll draft the contract, then you’ll also have a consultation on the efficacy of the contract and other advices on the contract, pwedeng umabot ng mga 3%.
Pero yung 5%, usually more than 5% kung may kaso na. Kung may kaso na. Kasi unfair naman, pipirma ka lang ng notaryo, tapos maningil ka.
Atty Ferrer: May guidelines naman ng organization, yung Integrated Bar of the Philippines, na kung ma-notary lang, yung pure na pirma, dapat mga maximum na 1%.
Philippe: With the numbers naman, kung madami nang nagpapanotaryo, malaki din.
Atty Ferrer: Malaki din. Kaya ako, ever since notary public din ako.
Philippe: As in, from what I know, focus ka for the car industry, madaming deed of sale. Actually, real estate, mas malaki pa.
Pag may nakabenta ng 1% or what, let’s say 15 million worth of property, malaki din. Pumirma ka lang. Ano pala, that’s why ang dami rin notaryo, ang dami rin…
Philippe: I don’t know why, what’s the misconception about this? A lot of people think, oh may notaryo lang, not knowing moneymaker pala yun.
Atty Ferrer: Dapat talaga, valid na notaryo. Kasi may aming fly-by-night na notary na secretary na lang yung pumipirma. Bawal yun. Tapos hindi nag-appear yung party. Bawal yun.
Yung pinatryahan ngayon pugsain ng Supreme Court, inibisigan nila yung notary public. Kasi dapat talaga, nasa harap mo i-notary na. Pero maraming regulations para paiwasan yung irregularity.
Philippe: I think dapat i-hunt down na kasi ang dami talagang fly-by-night.
Atty Ferrer: Hindi niya kasira sa mga valid na notary public. Mahirap din talaga mag-apply for notarial commission.
Philippe: Dapat targetin nila recto. Kasi yung mga seals, right? Doon pala sa seal. Madali nga pagawa ng seal doon. I can be a notary public if I want to.
Hindi nila maso-suspect. Anyway, back to the question. When it comes to mga aspiring lawyers, can you give us your best tips, maybe your top three, on how to pass the bar exams? Let’s start with that.
Atty Ferrer: Top three tips. From the start, sa first year law school pa lang, dapat talaga to’ng aral na huwag lang yung puro case digest. Kasi ngayon makikita mo sa internet yung case digest.
You really have to read cases from the first to last page. And yun, basan mo yung puyat. Tapos, pangalawa, you really have to take advantage of technology. Now, puro maraming online.
Atty Ferrer: Yung mga batas, hindi mo na kailangang bumili lahat ng mga librong kapal. And mayroon pang AI ngayon. Pero you also have to verify whether the facts in the AI results are accurate.
Philippe: You advise AI, na? You would advise that they use AI.
Atty Ferrer: But you still have to check whether the results are correct. Kasi marami pa rin hindi naman infallible ang AI, di ba? If you feed false information or inaccurate information in AI, yung database, mali din yung ilalabas niya. Wala namang perfect na AI.
Philippe: So, depende rin sa mga inputs mo.
Atty Ferrer: At lo, do not forget to relax. Katulad ko dati, kahit naman nasa law school ako, para rin, mam, you have to maintain your sanity. May ano pa rin, kung saan lumalabas-labas, tapos huwag mo kalimutan yung mga kaibigan mo.
You still have to be well-rounded. Not just be yung ganasabi nilang nerd na puro aral lang. Thank you for the tips. Alam mo, importante ngayon yung mental health, di ba?
Philippe: Yes. Do you think it’s a real issue, mental health?
Atty Ferrer: Yes, it’s really a real issue, especially because my wife is a professor and may students siya na nag-suicide kapag may pumaksak sa isang subject, na-disappoint sa isang professor, na talaga nasigawan, mga gano’n.
May mga ano ngayon na nandide-depressed, tapos nag-suicide na mga estudyante. Tumataas talaga.
Philippe: It’s a real issue kasi we know that mental health exists with so many people. But the largest issue there is we don’t take notice or our leaders don’t take notice. And maybe that’s when lumalaking yung cases na mga suicide or yung mga nadide-depressed,
not necessarily taking their life, but yung degradation of society because of mental health. And I think our government’s not really taking it so seriously kasi sinasabi nila, ah, pagod lang naman yan. Pang mayaman lang yan.
Atty Ferrer: I think back then kasi, if we look back in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, hindi ganon, okay, we were in the information age, but the content that we were consuming during that time, not only was it limited, but hindi siya, it wasn’t that type of content where you can doom scroll.
Philippe: Kasi right now, pag go to Facebook, daming, daming ano, societal pressures. Exactly. That’s the right term. And because from there, ang daming influencers, ang daming kung sino-sino naman, and then they compare their lives with them.
Back in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, I know exactly the societal pressure of teenagers, which is an aspect where they see magazines. Ito dati, magazine cover.
Atty Ferrer: Magazines lang, vogue lang. Ngayon, daming na.
Philippe: Doon sila nade-depress na parang, oh, di ba? They see models. These days, we don’t see models. We see a lot of content that is not for us to digest.
Atty Ferrer: Too much information. Ano, it’s free. Unlike before, you have to buy the magazine.
Philippe: You have to go to the mall and open the magazine, din hindi mo bibili.
Atty Ferrer: Tapos may ano talaga. Before, there are physical connection. You can play around. Maraming naglaro sa labas. Tapos yung mga interaction. Ngayon, marami. Kadalasan sa phone na lang. Iba pa rin. Social media, ito na lang kumukuha ng information.
Philippe: In your stand with AI, I’ve, recently I’ve talked to a couple of lawyers and iba-iba din yung stance nila on AI. It seems that you approve of it, depending on what you report.
Atty Ferrer: Even the Supreme Court approves of it. But of course, it should be regulated. Because if you use it for, if you become dependent on it, hindi rin naman tama. Kasi minsan, yung AI mali rin naman minsan nabibigay sa atin.
Pero yung ibang mga, lalo yung mga routine routine work ng lawyers, yung mga case management, mga gano’n, yun kaya na yun yung matulungan ng AI.
Atty Ferrer: Pero yung mga complex na compliance cases, pag summary lang, okay lang. Pero yung mismo analysis, yun kailangan, hindi naman kaya ng AI.
Philippe: Tama, tama. So they, like, a lawyer shouldn’t go, “How do I win this case? What are the…” Malay mo, may mga ganyan lawyer, “I’m back to a door, hindi ko alam kung ano gagawa. What should we do?”
Atty Ferrer: More than just a database. Pag summary sa mga database, kaya, kaya ng AI yan.
Philippe: Okay. Let’s jump to because we’re talking about AI and everything, and since our Supreme Court approves of it, do you think TV shows and movies that portray lawyers in litigation or any type of movies,
do you think those types of entertainment, are they, is it close to reality and do you think they help a lot when watching these TV shows and movies?
Atty Ferrer: For foreign movies and TV shows, yan, ano naman. It reflects reality but, of course, yung ano lang, for example, sa US TV shows, naman magtataka sila bakit may mga jury. Sa Pilipinas kasi walang jury, judge lang. Iba kasi yung system naman nila, court system nila.
Philippe: Tell us how different it is because you’re right, I forgot about that. Nakikita din namin in movies na kinu-qualify din nila yung mga juries.
Atty Ferrer: Yeah.
Philippe: Which is something that was very surprising for us.
Atty Ferrer: Wala jury system sa atin. Ang ano natin, ang parang jury and judge sa US ay ano lang, sa isang judge lang. Or in the appellate courts, yung division of justices, walang jury sa atin.
Sa tingin ko rin, hindi rin mag-work yung mga jury sa atin kasi ano nga, di ba, sa pag-vote pa nga lang ng mga politicians natin. Kasi ang jury, ano yan eh, parang rin na raffle among the citizens.
Atty Ferrer: Yung may, ano, kung sino yung mapipili as jury tapos yung majority vote nila yung mag-decide kung mag-convict pa to o hindi.
Philippe: Do you think it’s better without a jury or with a jury? What are your thoughts?
Atty Ferrer: In the Philippines, if the judges are honest, kahit wala nang jury, pero kung di naman, kung prone to corruption yung mga judges and justices natin, mas okay na may jury
Pero dapat yung mga educated hindi yung mga uneducated na madaling ma-sway or ma-bribe. And yung ano naman, sa mga local TV shows, medyo, ano, inaccurate siya.
Philippe: Bakit naman? Actually, parang I don’t watch any TV shows. Ano ba yung… Meron ba? Parang, ano? I think meron para sa mga MMK o ganyan. Kasi may recently yung I think yung recent bar exam, parang may…
You were congratulating this celebrity, this TV show actor na naging totoong lawyer na talaga siya kasi doon sa TV show niya, lawyer siya. And he took an interest and then napasa siya. Ay, model ba ako yan? Model ba siya? Basta artista, basta ano siya.
Atty Ferrer: May artista din. Recent, ano yung last bar exams, may model, may artista na nakakapasa.
Philippe: Quite interesting, ano? Pero at least sila legit. From being a celebrity to a lawyer, that’s a big jump. Kasi celebrity, stressful na, puyat and everything. Tapos mag-aaral ka pa ng law. Gosh, that’s… Well, thank you for your insights, Atty. Ferrer.
I’m pretty sure a lot of aspiring lawyers who are still studying would take your advice on, especially their stance on AI because pretty sure these young, aspiring lawyers are nag-aaral sila and they still use AI because everyone’s using it already.
Philippe: So, pretty much I’m sure they would ask, oh, instead of reading thick books, research natin. Siguro my last question is how safe do you think is using AI when it comes to your studying, when it comes to your research?
What were your, can you give us your best tips on what to input just to get the right results?
Atty Ferrer: First, you have to choose the right AI program. Kasi may mga ano din dyan. For example, yung mga sabi nila got in China, it’s really filtered by the Chinese government.
Philippe: What would you recommend as an AI platform?
Atty Ferrer: I’d recommend Gemini from Google. I believe it’s reliable. And yun nga lang, tama diba, paid yan.
Philippe: Actually, may free pa rin. May free pa rin. So, out of, ilan ba yung AIs natin ngayon?
Atty Ferrer: ChatGPT, Gemini,
Philippe: Si Grok from X, and then there’s one more, yung kay China. I can’t remember what the name was. Pero I’m with you with Gemini.
Atty Ferrer: You only have to be yung tama na instructions sa AI. You still have to countercheck the results. Kasi maaaring may mamali. At tulad ng nagkaroon ng case sa Sandigan Bayan na ginamit na isang lawyer yung AI.
Nag-site-QA ng U.S. case na nung check ng mga justices. Wala naman pala gano’ng U.S. case.
Philippe: Oh my God.
Atty Ferrer: So, nag-discipline yung lawyer na yun.
Philippe: Oh my God. And lawyer talaga. Nakakahiya naman.
Atty Ferrer: Oo nga eh.
Philippe: Siguro dapat tama yung problem.
Atty Ferrer: You really have to countercheck. Lalo na yung mga U.S. cases. Kasi ano eh, marami rin fake na, kung parang may U.S. case sa ganito, yun pala fake.
Philippe: Fake pala. Maraming dami pala ganun. Usually kasi AI generally nag-search naman yan sa mga news sites, articles.
Atty Ferrer: Parang ano rin, sa mga fraud, you really have to check the site whether it’s reliable or not. Maraming mga fake websites. And unfortunately, even AI, yung ibang AI gets from the fake websites, yung mga fraudulent websites.
Philippe: Okay, so there you have it. Mga aspiring law students, diba? Thank you for the time for coming here, Atty. Thank you for sharing the David and Goliath story of your firm.
It’s quite an interesting case, and it was not so long ago. And good luck to your new journey as a tax lawyer, corporate and tax lawyer.
Atty Ferrer: Thank you very much.
Philippe: Hopefully we’ll find more time to discuss on that, especially when it comes to taxes.
Atty Ferrer: Sayang lang, actually, may law school classmate and fraternity brother is the former Commissioner Romeo Lumagui.
Philippe: Oh, wow, wow, it’s good.
Atty Ferrer: He even encouraged me to take up accountancy. That’s why I took up accountancy.
Philippe: That’s great.
Atty Ferrer: One of the reasons why. Into Fitness, share yun sa akin, invite sa Slimmers for them to join in that time.
Philippe: Sige, let’s add a bit of context for fitness with lawyers. Yeah. We see a lot of lawyers unfit. Yeah. Give us your top tips on staying fit.
Atty Ferrer: One of my passion is health and fitness because I’m hypertensive since I was 20s. I inherited it from my mother. This is my maximum weight and I eat healthy food but I still have hypertension.
So, I really try to be fit. Ever since I was diagnosed with hypertension, I really make sure that I work out or do fitness activity at least three times a week. And I eat healthy food.
Atty Ferrer: You don’t have to measure your food. You only have to eat a balanced diet. And I think more sleep. You also have to observe at least six hours of sleep.
Philippe: Six hours. Very generous. Okay. Thank you for that.And then we can end the session now.
